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Episode transcript from the Close It Now podcast with Sam Wakefield.
Well, all right. Welcome back to Close It Now. Sam Wakefield here. I am joined today by an incredible person that I met recently at an event I was at. This is Lisa Forrest.
She is with Contractor Commerce. Her experience, for all of you listening, she was a territory manager with Linux for five years and she's been at Contractor Commerce for four years now. It sounds. That's what you're saying. And one of the things that I love the most about her, the instant that we met at the, at the event recently, the.
You know when, when you come across people and you instantly recognize game recognizes game. Right? So authenticity is something that is a tangible thing that you cannot fake. And so for all of you listening, you, we all know these people. You, you meet them and you're like, oh my gosh, what, what is this person's angle?
Or holy moly, this person is just fake as all get out. But when you come across the people that are truly authentic and they truly care and want to help people, you instantly recognize that. And that's what I recognized about you, Lisa, when we first met. And our good friend Paul, as Paul Olson over at so good, he's introduced us and yeah, from that moment we were like, oh my gosh, we have to get on a show together and talk about this. So thanks for being on the show today.
I appreciate you carving some time out of your calendar for me. Yeah, I'm excited to be here and thanks for the kind words. It means a lot. Absolutely, absolutely. So let's continue this authenticity conversation.
Actually, before we do, let's do something fun. Let's break it up a little bit. I like to start with, instead of doing the traditional, hey, give us your highlight reel of how you got here. What is some one really boring fact about you? Ooh, boring.
These are always fun and the reason I asked boring is when, you know, when you do these at trainings a lot it's like, hey, what's really exciting fact about you guys and your ladies and nobody knows what to think. But if you say hey, what's a boring fact? All of a sudden everybody's most exciting facts come out. So it's almost reverse psychology. So I'm gonna say I'm usually in bed by 8:30, no later than 9 o'.
Clock. I turn my phone on airplane mode, disconnect from socials, of all things, I'm reading. I want to just turn my brain off and get ready. I'm usually up at 4:30, 4:45, heading to the gym by 5 so got to get those z's in. So got to say I'm a grandma.
That's what makes me, I guess, per se boring fact. I love it, I love it, I love it. That's awesome. You know, it's funny, the more that I get into fitness and working out and designing my life intentionally, I find myself doing the same thing. Even last night was not the case.
My, my oldest was up and so we actually, she wanted to watch a movie so I stayed up to watch a movie with her. So it was in bed at 11, which is very unusual. Normally it's, you know, 9:30ish at the latest. So I hear you, I hear you. The morning time is powerful.
Actually. That's a cool segue, this unplanned. Let's take a detour here because with successful people what I've noticed is your morning routine is everything. So I'd love to hear from you, take us through what your morning routine look like. So you're up, you're in the gym, but I know that you do more than just that in your morning routine because you don't have to even know someone's morning routine, but you can see the results of that in their life and their success.
And so talk us through. What's an ideal? The Lisa Forest recipe for success in the morning. Yeah. So great question.
I so Jim, usually getting home around 6:30 after I do my workout, I sit in a sauna for 15, 20 minutes about twice a week just to kind of get out the toxins. I always feel a little bit more like lifted when I come out of the sauna when days I don't. And then when I get home, shower. Oh no, take the dogs out, feed them because they're a priority and then shower. Don't turn on tv.
I'm still not getting on my phone, scrolling I've really, really been int. Intentional with that. And I do my devotional. I'm in in the word. Whether it's a little bit of reading or a devotional.
I get into my inbox or something, one of my Bible study group, like a verse and really just kind of dissecting that and peeling the onion and then pray and then that's where I kind of catch up on some news. I just really think that that disconnect from the real or real world a little bit in the morning and kind of be focused and have kind of that just kind of without any chaos coming at you and. Cause I realized when I would get up in the morning and I look at my phone and I check my email, that stress, that anxiety, that angst would start and I just would have a completely different day if I didn't start my day that way. Yeah. Oh, I love that so much.
There's something I heard not too long ago, they actually called it throning, which is the make it or break it of the morning. It was hilarious and depending on your level of potty humor. But you know, that's actually a reference that I'm seeing a lot more common is like so many people will lose time and also allow their brain to start to get filled with the chaos of the day while they're doing their morning duties on the throne. What are we doing? It's like, are we just scrolling when you're on your phone or what are we putting into our brain to start the day?
And that's, interestingly enough, that's actually a commitment I made is the same as to not touch my phone for the first couple hours of the morning so I can have an intentional start to the day and get my head right because the day goes smoother that way. So for everybody listening, have a morning routine. If you want a guide to it, there's. What's the book? Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod is a fantastic book.
Highly recommend to everybody. But yeah, it's just like get up 15 minutes earlier and have some intention time. Yeah. And Mel Robbins had one. It's.
It's been some time, but it was like a 20 minute, you know, the Millionaire morning routine. And they don't, they're not on their phones. They get up right away. When you set your alarm, you're up. Do the countdown.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Like, blast off. Get your butt up. She says it a little bit differently, but it's very intentional because those things matter in how your day. Cause if some chaos comes at you in a half hour, you're gonna handle it a lot different after you're rested and you're gonna.
Your mind's calm, you've worked out some. Some stress or whatever in the morning versus, oh, you're just doom scrolling. Or you read the news and you're like, golly, this world's a dark place. Yeah. Is the still the dumpster?
I think that somebody lit the dumpster in 2020 and it's like never put the fire out. Yeah, almost. It seems like sometimes that's so this is fun. So if y' all have. So this is definitely an authentic conversation here.
But let's talk about that though. Because authenticity in sales, I mean, it's so tangible, but it's also one of those things that I think a lot of people can. It's almost elusive. It's like if you try to be authentic, then it's hard to be authentic, at least the way my mind sees it a little bit. So I'd love you to.
To talk a little bit about how being authentic and the relational side of sales, what we were talking about before the show, how has that helped you in your career? And I'd love to get your viewpoints on transactional versus relational, et cetera. Yeah, And I've been in sales my whole career. First job was Enterprise Rent a car. Then I moved on and worked at Regal and sold wine, then came here and worked at Lennox and then now Contractor Commerce.
So all sales related, but all a little bit different, but very relation relational, even Enterprise. Right. In a matter of 15 minutes, you have to become friends with this family that's gonna rent a minivan and start their trip. Right. Or the corporate guy that's flying in on business or the guy that's from the military that's there for the quick weekend to do his contract.
So in that sale, right, you have to obviously sell something and people are going to buy from someone they like and someone that's going to make them feel good or is giving them some sort of value add. But for me, how I approach it in all those roles is just being me. And I think people want to be like someone else. Past jobs, I've had comparison to others and boy, that puts a damper on you a little bit. But for me, it's just like, hey, what's going on?
Like, like I would talk to a friend and have just like a conversation, ask questions like, hey, what are you here for? Or hey, what are you stocking on the shelf today? Or, you know, whatever that circumstance may be. But just really try to get to know someone. And I think people can pick up on that real quickly.
Right. Oh, this person's just trying to push something on me. But they can tell if you're being intentional and you' really curious about what, what they're gonna do in that moment. Yeah, I, that's. I love, I love your take on that.
And, and you know, one thing that I've recognized in, you know, as many people as I've trained in cells and I've been in, you know, in cells and pure cells training for so long. And, you know, it's funny because you, you're making. Actually, as you, you tell your story, you're making me think back through. I didn't even know I was in cells for a lot of years before I, you know, officially got into sales and HVAC. So year.
I mean, for forever. So right out of high school into college, I was way to tables. Well, that's a version of sales. Then I worked at Sears and aged myself here, but I was in the tool department in Sears for a couple years. Well, that was sales.
I just didn't realize it. I thought, oh, you know, somebody wants something, I'm helping them. And I think that's the biggest theme is when somebody wants or needs something, we help them. And if we can redefine. Because so many people have this stigma against cells and it's.
Oh, cells is the cells is what this story we tell ourself of what we think it should look like. But that's been one of my missions, is to break those stigmas and say, cells is truly just showing up as your best self and asking more questions and how can we help today? And if we can't help, tell them that too. And just that authentic honesty is what truly sales really is at the highest level. I agree.
I agree. And also I think it's relational beyond just the transaction of. All right, here you go. Here's your tool, right? Or here's your E Commerce store, or here's your bottle of wine.
You're thinking about what that customer or that person's gonna do in that scenario, right? They're gonna go share that bottle of wine with some family, give them a recommendation on a meal that you just had that you enjoyed that bottle of wine with. Or, hey, you know, I know you're in San Diego and you're renting a. I'm not sure where you're going, if you're going up north, but Encinitas is my favorite spot in San Diego. It's A moonlight beach.
You can go and watch a sunset of building. That experience also in that. In that moment as well. Well, you know, this. This is beautiful.
I'm glad you said that, because that's, you know, that that's where I think so many people miss in trying. You know, if they're technicians and. Or, you know, comfort advisors or whatever the industry, it doesn't even matter. You know, if it's plumbing, electrical, garage doors, roofing. It's all the same as we're building.
Exactly what you said. We're painting word pictures and building an experience in that homeowner's mind, in that client's mind. And when they start to. When they can start to be able to at least a little bit see it in their mind from that picture that we're painting of what the future can. What the future can look like and give them something to grab ahold of a little bit, that's what pulls people forward, is the experience of having this thing or the service or whatever pulls them forward into that.
And that's the reason people take action. That's why this gets rid of that conversation of how do we create urgency in the off season? This. This is it. If I know that my life is going to change the moment I do this project, I don't care what time of the year it is.
Yeah. And I think it's also recognizing it and your. Your social cues, your mindset. And I think, you know, it goes back to how you start your day. And if you're starting with chaos, that whole day is going to be one snowball of chaos.
And if you started out a little bit more calmly, right. You're handling situations a lot differently. Right. You're cool, calm, collected, and, yeah, things may bother you, but maybe you take that moment, just breathe, and then you ask a question or you, you know, give a piece of a recommendation. But with home services especially, the thing that stands, that stood out to me is home, right?
We're being invited to somebody's personal space or at, like, Enterprise, I'm in a parking lot and, you know, with wine, I'm in a restaurant or a local grocery store. But in home, these are people's, like, personal space, right? Like, where they may have their dirty laundry just laying everywhere. And, you know, you may see some things that, you know, you're like, whoa. But that's.
It's a personal space. And so when I decided to come into the home services, I was like, I do not take this lightly. Like, this is a whole other layer of intentionality. Unpack that for me because I think a lot of times, especially, you know, if we've been in. It's a good reminder for some things.
But if we've been in the industry for a long time, if we've been in home services, then we get almost numb or jaded to that fact and we forget and we just get so focused on our day to day that we've, we're really start to miss the big picture. So unpack that a little bit. What do you, what do you mean by that? And, and how does it, you know, affect and guide what you do? Well, again, our home is our haven.
It's our safe space. Right. When we come home from a rough day at work or, you know, had dinner with friends, like, it's time to, you know, put the PJs on, relax, turn on a show, or someone grabs a bottle of wine and you're, you're relaxing, right? Or, and it's like your private space that you can be like, I even think that people, like, that's maybe where they show up their most authentic also, you know, I think too, the home is where memories are made. A lot of time there's like holidays and family.
And so it just really takes it more deep, deep rooted, right. Like you're providing comfort, you're providing fresh water for someone that's about to celebrate Easter or somebody that's to celebrate a birthday. Like, it's, there's just so much more. What's the one I'm trying to say here? Comfort and value and more strategy to it than I think in sales.
But like, if you really go in there and start your mind right of I'm about to help this person, like, this could be my grandmother, this could be my parents. Like, how would I want this person's son or this person's grandma to me to approach this situation and this person to feel safe and trusted when I step foot in their home and breaking that barrier, hopefully that makes sense. I'm kind of. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
You know, that's. You're. Gosh, this is such a cool conversation. I love where these conversations go because they're so unplanned. So to bring back in that authentic piece and the difference in authenticity.
And I know there's some trainers out there that talk about creating these, fabricating these special moments. And to me, it's just, it's kind of gross. We have to remember that authenticity piece. And you know, you, you mentioned something there with holidays and with special moments for the homeowners and our Clients, somebody's birthdays, all of these things. We.
It's like, we get so isolated. Like the blinders on, like. Like racehorses, right? They put the blinders on so they can't see outside their lane. That's what happens to us.
We've got to take those off. We remember when we're stepping into someone's basically sacred space, and we have to honor that and treat it with the level of respect that it deserves. And don't forget to ask about the other stuff. It's like. So that whole asking more questions thing, what's coming up.
If we're near holidays, we need to talk about what their experience is going to be like in the holidays now with this new heating and air system or with this new. Whatever it is. What. So here. Here's a great example, right?
I was at a house one time, and the senior. The senior couple, this is a big house. And they loved, loved, loved to have their family over for Thanksgiving every year. It was a big, big family gathering for Thanksgiving. And so we were talking about, you know, two.
Two different aspects we ended up doing. So the project there ended up being a completely variable speed zone system and also a tankless water heater. And the reason for all of that, and I was not there for a water heater, but the reason that all came up was I just started the questions with, hey, we've got Thanksgiving coming up. Do you guys ever have family over? And so after another 40 minutes of them, very detailed, talking about their family experience at Thanksgiving, and I just listened to.
Then I just asked, oh, well, so does it ever get, like, hot in here when you're baking all day and you have to, like, open the windows because the air conditioner won't work? And then that was another 20 minutes of talking about how bad they hated it and how. But when the air conditioner would come on, everybody would freeze, et cetera, et cetera, it's like, oh, if we could solve that, would that help? And they go, yes. Okay, Well, I mean, so with so many people in the house, you go, ever run out of hot water?
They go, oh, my God, all the time. So if. I mean, if you didn't run out, would that be helpful to you guys? Yes. And so I talked that much in an hour and a half, and it's like $50,000 project, because I just sat and listened and asked the right questions to match what is going on here.
So it's like that and so not tell that story to emphasize the fact that when we just truly show up to care and listen and ask better questions and like, oh, okay, so sounds like you've got a big problem here. If we could solve this, would that help? And they go, yes, please. And it was no longer about price. It was not about, you know, everybody knows it's coming up on the holidays.
People put things off. Well, they didn't because they wanted to have that experience with their family this year. And it's like, okay, so what isn't going to be great to know that you're not going to have to deal with either of those things. This, this Thanksgiving, it's gonna be the most comfortable house, like, time you've ever had. And they're like, this is incredible.
And so it's just cool when we can, like, just remember we're human beings working with human beings. Agree. And it's, it's like, it's also being aware too, like looking around you. And people like to talk about themselves. They want to have a conversation.
Even some of these people probably. I mean, you don't know what they're going through personally, what happened at their job, or if have some family things going on. Like, I've always looked at it like, be a light in the world when there's just so much crap coming on. People are drawn to that. And I'm not saying to do that just to get the sale.
Right. Like, it's all about authenticity. Yeah, that's it. We have to remember that if we're there for the money, then it's commission breath. People could smell that a mile away.
You know, that has to be. We have to, you know, focus on helping and the dollars will follow if we're. We was like classic Ziggler, Classic Zig Ziglar. Right. You help enough people get what they want, you can have anything you want.
But that's true. But it has to go in that order. Yes, and I'm interested, too. So we've been using the same HVAC company. I love them.
They're great. It's a company that I know when I was a Linux tm, they would train their technicians and all that. And usually we have the same technician come to our home for our maintenance visit twice a year. We just recently did a bunch of remodeling our floors. And pretty much every room in the house has some new furniture, fresh paint.
I'm going to be interested to see if they notice. Yeah, right. That's a good test. It's like, are they paying attention or not? Right.
And I think it's also, I mean, it goes from the top down, from when, you know, a CSR answers the phone to the technician, to ownership and really everybody kind of having that mentality. And if it doesn't start from the top down, right, if the leaders don't believe that, then the, the texts and all them are gonna be like, whatever, man, I'm just showing up here to do a tune up and on to the next one, right? Not, they're not there to, you know, have that conversation and like make someone's day and you know, and, and maybe write a cool little note at the bottom and say, hey man, I hope you have a good fourth of July. Like that little things like that matter. Even with Starbucks, like, I notice I go to every Starbucks and they have a little fun.
Yeah, yeah, they write the note on your cuff. But still they're all different. Like have a great day or smile or you're cool, Lisa. And I'm like, they're all different. And it all shows, you know, the different baristas, you know, personality coming out.
But still it, it makes someone smile. And it's the, like, whether they start their day that way or they're ending their day with a cup of tea, I mean, it goes a long way. You know, it's funny that you mentioned this because I was on a coaching call this morning with one of my clients and it's really fun because we're about, I don't know, four months into our journey together for one on one coaching, four to five months, and he's taking a new position at a company, he's transitioning and doing some different stuff right now. And so we were recapping what's happened so far and the new place wants him to actually be somewhat of a trainer at this new place for, you know, for the Plummers and moving into HVAC cells. And so it was hilarious because we were talking, rewinding back four or five months ago.
He's like, man, I just need you to help me overcome objections. I get these, all these objections, all these objections. And so have we had the objection handling conversation in five months? Absolutely not at the same time. What we talked about today was, he's like, man, I just don't seem to get objections.
I was like, yes, because we fixed your process. Process and the questions. And I was like, you can say this till you're blue in the face. I say this over and over and over. I said, but let's look back though.
You know, when I told you at the beginning, the little things are what makes the biggest difference. You didn't get it, but now you do. Because looking back, it's the small tweaks and the slight adjustments that make the biggest difference. And so I love that you talk about the notes on the coffee cup, because people, you don't remember what your order was four days ago, but I guarantee you, you remember how it made you feel when you got that special note. And that's just a small glimpse into how we can affect people's lives.
It's how we make them feel because that's what they resonate with. And like, oh, my gosh, they just made me feel so good. This was a great experience. What makes a great experience from a not great experience is it's not the fact that they checked over your equipment and they did the maintenance. It's the fact that they took the time to say, oh my gosh, you guys remodeled.
Tell me what all did you do or not. Right? I'll keep you posted. Yeah, this will be fun, ongoing conversation. Because in my mind, I'm walking and going, oh, my gosh, you did so much remodeling.
Tell me all about it. And then I'll ask, has anyone ever talked to you about, do you know what VOCs are? And most homeowners will go, no. What's that? Oh, it's the off gassing of chemicals from all of this remodeling work you just did.
Would you like to know what we do as technicians to keep our own family safe when we do remodeling? And then now you've got IAQ product that's now in your home because it's safety, it's protection. So it will be interesting to see how they handle it. Yeah, so let's actually, this is a great segue too, because, you know, there's a lot of different ways. So one of the reasons, of course, you're on here is so we can talk about contractor commerce.
That's part of the conversation here. And for everybody listening, I don't have vendors on very often and I only do when I believe in the product anymore. Like, for everybody's listened, I have gone back and taken down podcasts from people that turned out their product was bad or they turned out to be crooks or whatever. But that's not the case here, of course. So fun fact, before we turn the corner here, I'm almost to 300 episodes.
Episode 50 was Paul Redmond. It was Tall Paul. Still to this day, it is the most listened to episode I've ever recorded. So that's really fun. So this is really Cool.
Because at that time he was just entering into. He hadn't even made the transition yet because our recording was from his last place in the podcast studio. So I was just transitioning into Contractor Commerce. So the conversation in episode 50 was around how the industry is moving and how a lot more people are showing their prices online. So this is a fun continuation of that because now we've got data behind that.
At that point, it was just supposition. We're like, oh, I think that this is happening. So he was like, I'm going all in on this because I think this is where the industry's moving to. Well, fast forward a few years. Now we have data behind it.
So that's a fun segue into. Catch us up in the last four years of Contractor Commerce. Let's talk, let's unpack it. Let's talk about it. What, you know, people buying online, all the things.
Do we show prices? Do we not show prices? Every bit of that. We can, we can have a cool conversation here, man. Sam, do you have the whole data chat?
Because this is a topic for sure. Yeah, let's go. Well, it's interesting because, you know, you said you talked to Paul before he came here, so he just celebrated five years. So I came a year after Paul joined Contractor Commerce. And I'll speak to.
When I joined, right? Like, Paul had posted something on LinkedIn and said, hey, who wants to help change the industry and make it innovative and bring something new? And I'm like, ooh, this is really cool. I want to be a part of this. So I pestered Paul for a few months and got hired as one of the first salespeople here.
And it's been remarkable to see the change and how fast. And I think that's a few different things that I'll come back to. But initially, a lot of people think we were just the drop shipping filter company. I still get comments like that. And I, I chuckle because it's, it's funny, right?
And like, maybe there's, there's something with the, the branding. But when you think of Contractor Commerce, people do think E Commerce, but immediately people thought, oh, I'm not putting my. I'm not selling units online. And I'm like, well, well, that's not it. Right.
Also, trade shows, like, people would avoid our booth where today, I mean, man, it's, it's really cool to see people, whether they say, hey, so and so uses you or hey, I've been thinking about this. I don't want to be the last one behind so it's. That in itself has seen a lot of change, but really the foundation of what contractor commerce is is plugging an E commerce store on your website and given the capability to sell your products, services, and even do online quotes for whatever facet of your business. Got it. Let's build this up a little bit.
So yeah, when we say that, say sell your products and services online, my brain goes to several different levels there because we do lots of things. It's not just the one thing. And I think that's where a lot of people get stuck is it's all or not. And so walk us, step us through it a little bit. Because I mean, everything from, you know, from a maintenance plan can be done there.
The filter, like, like we were talking about small things all the way into the biggest of things in a company. Yeah. So I mean, it's really what you make of it. You can just drop shit filters if you are anti pricing online. We hear you.
We're not going to force you into something that you want to do because that's where we see people not launch properly and not have success if they're not bought in. It's not going to, it's not going to work. Yeah. And when I say products, it's mostly IEQ products. It's the filters.
You can add custom products that you want to sell, but the services is a great opportunity. Like you mentioned maintenances. You know, ACHR News said about a month ago, I think they released an article that 50% of Americans are not getting maintenance done on their system. Boy, I would be advertising my maintenance club from the rooftops. Right.
Like buy your maintenance plan. Yeah, Buyer maintenance plan. It's super easy. You can pay a monthly fee, but it doesn't stop there. Right.
If you want to add IAQ products, if you want to sell a water heater so some DIYER can buy it and install it themselves, it's what you make of it. The online estimate feature is really just guiding that homeowner through a good, better, best and getting a rough idea of what a system costs. They're still going out there and meeting the customer like any other opportunity and talking about the options. But now you've gotten the, you know, the, the price transparency piece out of the way. Now it's starting to build the value.
Asking the questions like, hey, do you have family over for Thanksgiving? Or hey, I noticed you have a lot of dust and your, your vents look moldy. As I look up at my. It's not moldy. I cleaned it.
You know, you're very observant. You're. You know, you mentioned it, asking the questions to where what our customers say is when their salespeople go out to the home, they're closing at a higher ticket because now they're talking about IAQ, or they're talking about 65 stages of cooling versus single stage and what that difference is and explaining it to a homeowner. But really, obviously, the ROI is those system sales, because they sell a couple jobs or two, it pays for itself. Right?
One thing that I've noticed, too. And so this is fun because I can play devil's advocate because I've talked to so many contractors, and the sentiment around, you know, it's always been the back and forth, do we put our prices online or do we not? Do we put our prices up? And so I think a lot of it comes from. It depends on if you live in an abundance mindset or a scarcity mindset, which is the main driver behind where that decision lies.
So let me be devil's advocate for a moment. I'm a contractor, I've got a company, and, Lisa, tell you what, everything sounds great, but, man, I just don't want to put my prices online because what if my homeowners see it and it scares them away? And so, yeah, what would you say to that then? I would argue, or I shouldn't say argue, but I would say back, we're. Gonna have a conversation.
Yes, we're gonna have a conversation. But I would say back, well, doesn't that happen today, Sam? Well, yeah, but at least, you know, I get my salespeople in the house and they have an opportunity to, you know, to show. To show our value and to, you know, to close once they have that chance to have that conversation with the homeowner. Well, do you think that this could also give you the opportunity to quote more jobs and kind of widen that net?
I mean, you may lose a few of them, right? You may have a few people that say, ooh, that's outside of our budget. Or maybe someone is shopping in that moment to prepare for six months down the road because your technician or another technician was in there and said, hey, you know, this thing's on its last legs. I would recommend changing it. And for whatever reason, they don't.
Well, now you have this homeowner that is interested, right? You got a name, phone number, address, where their system's located, the square footage of their home, and the type of system you have. Now's the opportunity to kind of shine in. I want to Say, a subliminal way, because now you can incorporate them into, you know, a direct marketing campaign, a direct mail campaign, or an email campaign, talking about why changing your filter monthly or quarterly is important. You're educating the homeowner now.
You can talk about your maintenance and why, hey, getting a maintenance does this, this, and this for your home. It prevents breakdowns and all those things. So it's not necessarily turning that customer away at that moment, but it's, it's an opportunity to widen the net. Right. And turn your website into a tool that's educating a customer and building trust from the standpoint.
Because I think of how we shop online today, if I, I, I can buy a car online, I can, you know, go look and compare at appliances. Right. We as homeowners are doing that for every other facet of our life. The same thing. I was just talking to somebody the other day that bought a house site unseen online.
Wow. They just built a relationship with the realtor in the area because they made some videos and they happened to come across a few reels and said, oh, that's really intriguing. Oh, I like the way they present this. And so when it was time to make that decision, before they even moved to Austin from California is where he was, he said, just called that person. He said, I've been watching your reels for six months.
Never commented, never liked anything, and said, I'm moving to your area. I trust you because of the way you've represented yourself. Help me buy a house. Wow, that is just incredible how it works. Right.
And so that also builds into the relationship part. Yeah. And I would say that's, that's this. Right. Like, most contractors are not putting pricing online.
If you can walk through and build a quote and get an idea like that does something better, or I don't want to say better, that does something different than the prior experience. And I'm not saying this is the end all, be all. That's the first thing I tell contractors. This is another thing to add to your toolbox. This is an and not an or.
This is not online leads versus tech turnover leads. Right. Then we'd have a real problem. Right. But, yeah, we're not losing one to get the other.
It's adding two. Right, Exactly. You mentioned something a minute ago talking about because y' all have enough clients now. I'm sure you have some data behind this. You were talking about how close rates seem to go up for their people.
Speak to that a little bit. Yeah. So in the data that we see of our customers, Walking through and getting a quote, 45% of those convert into an in home visit. So someone walks through, they answers a few questions, they see a rough estimate, hey, this is gonna cost me anywhere from eight to $25,000 of those opportunities. It's almost one and two.
And then when we are doing testimonials and we're meeting with clients and our account managers are talking, hey, how were your results last month? Whatever, you know, the situation may be, they're saying, my sales guys love these leads. You know, we're getting, we're closing these 65% or higher or 70% or higher. And I'm like, really? And they ask, why is that?
And they're like, well, we gotta say they've been conditioned on the price. And you know, there's a few statistics out there. We get a lot from Gartner. You know, ACHR News did has done a study through, through Clear, I believe, that asks homeowners questions about the experience of going through a home services, you know, replacement or what. They say 70% of homeowners prefer a contractor who shows pricing online over those that don't.
70%. So that's, that's a really interesting number. What is the percentage of contractors who actually show their pricing online? Do you know that one? It said 31%, but I would even argue it's less than that.
I would too, because, because like having a page and saying, hey, it can cost you 120 bucks a month. Right? That's not telling us. It's not showing price. Yes, exactly.
Just like the classic. There was a trainer years and years and years ago. I'm sure he's passed away now. Bob G. He used to say, anytime anybody asked for a ballpark, it would say, of course, this is yesteryear's prices.
Like, yeah, it's $89 a month. How long do you want to pay for it? And that was the small part. It's up to you to decide how long you want to pay for it. And so something I've noticed because I've worked with a lot of companies that, that have this, that have contractor commerce or a version of it.
There's some, you know, some other companies out there that do online pricing or maybe they've even done it themselves. And then plenty of companies that don't. The one thing I've really noticed is the speaking. So first of all, for everybody that's listening, the people that are going to go online and look for that are not the same people that will want to go through the process of having someone out to their home. It's not the same client.
And a great example of this is I've had a bunch of friends in the home alarm industry for a long time and when, because it used to be home alarm systems were the big ones, ADT and Brinks and it was a vivint and those types of things. But then when the DIY will ship you the box and you hang up your own equipment came out. They were terrified at first. Oh my gosh, they're going to steal all of our market. And what they noticed is their, their business didn't change any what that did it found a buyer that would never use a company they wanted to do it themselves.
So it was a completely different demographic and a different buyer altogether. And it didn't take away from the alarm industry at all. And so that's what I seeing especially across this. You know, five years ago having a conversation with Paul and now having, you know, and then you started four years ago and looking in the rearview mirror and watching so many people adopt online pricing. What I'm seeing is the buyer not a single company that added this lost anything.
If, if anything what happened is just like you're saying we love those clients that already know what it's going to cost before you roll. So we're not ha the conversation. We ne because I've run a bunch of those appointments, I've done a bunch of ride alongs and not a single time when it's one of those do they say I didn't expect it to be this much. That doesn't happen. But how many times do we hear that the rest of the time.
Oh my God, it's so much more than I thought it was going to be. Well because they didn't know ahead of time because no, our industry's not like the automotive industry. You get TV commercial every other day of check out the new Ford F150. You got the new Camaro. Starting at this MSRP of this the automotive industry has done of all industries the very best job of price conditioning the buyer.
They know exactly what it's going to be before they show up every time and they still buy it. $200,000 For a freaking, you know, Escalade now. And they, they can't keep them off, can't keep them on the lot still people know. So it's not. And people buy those site unseen online.
So that's my point is like why are we scared to put it, you know, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, $50,000 heating air system. If we do it properly, that doesn't. It's not going to change anything. It'll only add. So that's my viewpoint of it.
Yeah, no, I love that and I'll echo that. There's a contractor that I met with on Friday and two things she told me two years ago, she even told me this is getting us indoors that we've never been in and they have been around the Charlotte market for over 50 years. So you'd think that they have a really good reputation or great brand, which they do. But they're still getting indoors that they've never been in before. The other cool thought is there's salesmen come in.
They came in and I was, you know, super excited to see him cause it's been a while for my Linux days. And he was saying he had his best sales month and I was like, hey, have you ran any contractor commerce leads? He's like what? And I'm like have you ran any contractor commerce leads? He's like I don't know, I just put it in the address and I go out there and I talk to the homeowner.
So he doesn't even know whether it's a customer that's seen a price or not. Now some go a little bit differently on that strategy but I thought that was really cool too. Like a lot of the time I hear back, my salesmen are going to hate these, hate this. Right. They're going to have to combat the ticket and they're going to have to sell lower.
And many people tell us that is not the case. Yeah. So what I've noticed is the. So I love when you mentioned earlier about the people that. And I think using this tool as a way to.
Because people always ask for ballparks. Hey, so I have no idea. Give me a point of reference. So we. Instead of something I've said for years is don't be use the tools, don't be the tool.
And so the power of third party validation. And so when say a technician is out at a house and somebody asks, oh well. And they give them the conversation, oh, you should start thinking about replacing this. Well, how much is it going to cost? Well, tell you what, we've got all of our pricing online.
You can go check it out there. It'll give you the full range. You know, obviously we've, we have to grab some measurements. It might differ slightly of course, depending on what we need to do. However, it'll give you an idea of where to start.
And so then they go to the Website and they, they get to be interactive and go through that, that process there. So if they're planning for six months out, we don't have the con now. We don't have the conversation with the salespeople going, oh man, this was just a tire kicker they're planning for down the road. And so it saves those, they're not wasted appointments. I've always called it mailbox money.
But you have to be very intentional about having a follow up process. Otherwise someone else, when they do get ready, they're going to go through that process again to somebody else. Like if I was in your town, I would come in and just get the deal. I don't care if they saw you six months ago because I'm going to show them how I'm better. So I would have to have this very intentional process to stay in touch the whole way to make sure that six months down the road they're going with me.
But now it's like, okay, they're in just like you're saying they're in the ecosystem. We know what they looked at because we track that and then we can drip information according to that. And then this is the other piece that my brain's is like exploding right now. This is the other piece that I love about this is once we understand that everybody talks about outbounding, we have a very. For everybody listening, there's something called intent data that's really important in marketing.
If you know when someone has their level of intention about something. Well, anyone who's gone to that part of the website and gone through the process, you have their information, you know they have intent to buy. Who in the world should we market to first in our outbounding in the off season? But exactly those people and we can put an offer in front of them, say hey, we, you know, we saw you were looking at this. We've got a special right now.
It's true. Specifically for you. Are you open to a conversation? Why don't we get an appointment schedule? It's like, wow, there's so many ways to use this that I think are not even being used right now.
Yeah. And, and what's cool too is like everybody treats the store differently. And what I mean by that is we have contractors that label like fully installed price. Their good, better, best is fully installed because they want to send their sales guys to people that are actually intent going to change their system and to weed out tire kickers. Then we have contractors that say estimated install price or starting at because it doesn't include the additionals or a recommended ductwork.
Some contractors just show a monthly price because they really want to hone in on that financing element. Then we've got customers, you know, that. That show both. So again, it's. We go.
We go how they still want to present themselves and how they want to go about it. But then we also look at the data. You know, we've been doing it for. Since 2018. We've proven it with HVAC and plumbing that now we've started entering other trades.
Like, I have a company out in California that's a pool resurfacing and installs pools that uses our platform. And I'm like, really? For pools? He's like, oh, goodness. We get so many inquiries from Facebook and phone calls asking about rough estimate that we want to capture those people.
We want to send them to our website and put them part of our ecosystem. That's fun. This reminds me of. What's the book Marcus Sheridan, they Ask youk Answer. This is exactly that method, that process.
So for everybody listening, go. Go listen to or read that book. What other industries. So what are all of the. The ones that you're covering now?
Yeah. So HVAC, plumbing, electrical, garage doors, starting to get into roofing. We've got a company that does windows, gutters, pools. What's really cool is now we call it a journey, right? You're beginning the customer journey, and they're beginning to get an estimate.
We can make it into whatever. If there's somebody out there that's a landscaper and they're like, I want someone to get a quote on landscaping and answer a few questions, like, we can curate that. It can be what it can. It can be whatever we want it to be. Within the home services,.
This just became really, really, really powerful. I'm glad that we talked about this because, I mean, for everybody listening to the show, I mean, we've got people that listen in every industry. I'm doing a course right now. We've got a bunch of HVAC people and two people doing windows. So there's every trade I've had people reach out to me that.
I mean, do California closets even sell cars? All the things that's just so powerful. I love where this is headed. So here's something fun. Do you have any.
I'm curious because, I don't know, do you have anyone that have it set up where a homeowner can go through the customer journey? The whole process, from even going through the process, deciding what they want, applying for financing and Literally clicking buy now right on the website before anybody ever rolls. Well, I'm glad you asked. So most of our software up until about a few months ago was pushing it as a booking. They would get an appointment, they call the customer, they set it up.
But as you know, things have changed so much in this, this world of technology and AI that as agents start making decisions and start from the point of, for the. From the point of entry to the very end and doing an activity all the way through for a consumer, we want to bring that to the traits. So we actually just released our version 3 of Contractor Commerce which essentially is an all in one experience that is conversational. They can curate the agent to have certain dialect that ask certain questions. You can upload sales scripts to kind of intentionally lead this customer through the same journey, but all the way to checkout.
Why not remove that friction? That's cool. I had no idea. So for everybody listening, this was not Pre planned. I 100% was, was just very curious there.
Yeah, they could put a deposit down. If you want to take 4% or 500 bucks and someone's willing to do it and put their credit card, why not? If they want to apply for financing without leaving the site, they can do that. If they just want to book an appointment, that's fine too. But again, this is the way things have changed.
Google's made some clarity. I think someone told me yesterday, you. Know, this is how people buy Teslas. Why not? Yeah, exactly.
Right. So why not be that differentiator in your market and own that and allow your customer through the whole process. Do that if they want to. Right. Like your home, your, your person you talked about that bought a home sight unseen.
Do you think that they shop for their groceries and go into Walmart or Harris Teeter, that's what we have here in, in Charlotte and pick their groceries out. Probably not. Geez. I, you know that's funny. In the last three years, two, two or three years.
I think I can. This we'll. We'll talk about this year specifically. I think I've been to the grocery store. Maybe we normally order everything delivery now.
Yeah, a lot of people have. One of my favorite things out of the pandemic is delivery for groceries and delivery for. I mean doordash. It's awesome. Yeah, exactly.
And I think, I mean Covid really did change the way that we do business as home services. A lot of things stuck. People still don't go, you know, they still don't go to the grocery store. We've been Amazonified that we want things fast and within same day or within hours. Yeah, I mean virtual appointments all the time, you know.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, 30, 40, $50,000 heating and air systems or any other type of industry with, I mean, heck, I did a hundred solar systems across the country in a couple years and I think I was in person for 40% of those. The rest were all 100% done virtually. Yeah. There's a contractor here locally that the three ways that they get leads for their business, tech turnover, inbounds and contractor commerce.
With the contractor commerce opportunities, we were surprised at how many people elect a virtual appointment. And you know, it's again, it's setting the stage though, like hey, we need to verify a few things when we come out there and we gotta move some things. There may be additional costs. But guess what, you're educating that homeowner and you're telling them upfront they're already gonna know that when you come out there. But let them pick, give them the choice.
You know, that aligns so much. This is why I love this conversation because it aligns so much. I've said for well, well six years now that the way people buy has completely changed since the pandemic and that's why there's such a rise in first of all, permission based selling. Just generally speaking. And people were given the, I think especially in North America, we were given the permission to one have feelings and emotions which is super important.
But also we were given the power to choose is a lot of the shift. And so because everyone loves to buy, no one likes to be sold to. And so given the opportunity, people will happily take us up on it. We just don't give them the opportunity so often. And so I love where this is headed for home services and for the trades because they're, you know, we see it in such bigger ticket items.
You know, people are buying like crazy. Like we talked about buying cars and houses and you know, all of these things. Why in the world do we think that they won't do the same thing here? And again, like you're saying, you know, we've got to position it properly and of course we have to measure. We're not going to guarantee.
Yes, you selected the right thing. If we don't go and trust but verify, we're still going to go do a manual J load calculation and make sure. Oh you know what Mr. Ms. Homeowner, you know the calculator said online it's a three ton but you know, you really need a four.
And here's why? So as long as having the conversation of here's what it is, here's why we're doing it, here's why it's important and why it matters to you, okay, this is the difference. And no one complains or pushes back on that. And they're like, okay, that's fine. I just knew we had a starting point.
Yep, exactly. Beautiful. Beautiful. Oh, this is so good. So let's.
We're going to land this plane here in a second. So two things. One, I would love for you to. We'll give you a chance here in a second to give everybody contact information to get in touch with you to find out how they can have a conversation around what it might look like, no matter the trade, it sounds like to install something onto their website and truly what that looks like. But what my show is known for is giving everyone something tangible they can immediately apply.
Like what is. So what's your hot take? What is something that somebody can take right now and go and start implementing into their business. If it's just strictly sales, if it's something they can do in their marketing, something on their own website, what would that look like? What would you tell somebody to get started with today?
Man. Well, this is gonna be selfish, but a lot of people don't know this. If you go and Google AC repair near me or hey, how much does a new HVAC system cost? You're going to see a couple things pop up. One, there's a new button that Google's added called online estimates.
Are you prepared? Like, are you showing up in that search? Right. Are you having that conversation? I'd also elect too, like for even contractor commerce customers.
Does your Google my business profile say that you do online estimate? Do you have that service checked? But I think the biggest thing that I'm going to give people to take away, type in your website on a mobile device, Is it user friendly? Is it mobile optimized? Are the things you want customers to take action on in that matter of seconds that they're going to determine can this contractor help me or not?
Like call book, get a quote, is that visible? I think that would be the biggest thing, Sam. Because if it's not, guess what? They're jumping because they just determined in ten seconds. Oh, nope, onto the next one, you know.
So I actually did that on my own website while you were saying that because it's been a minute since I've looked at it via mobile. I was. It made me wonder what is it optimized or not? Yeah. And thankfully I am so.
Woohoo. There you win. You're part of it. I didn't know. I think it's roughly we've.
We look like if it's a mobile device or someone going through on desktop, it's over 65% people going on a mobile device. Because you think about it, it's 10 o' clock at night or it's the weekend. We, this is our best, you know, in some cases our best friend in the way that we, you know, communicate and business and all that stuff. So, you know, it's interesting because when I step outside of this is why it's so important. I mean there's so many reasons why it's important, but when I step outside of my business circle of friends, the number of people that I know that don't even own a laptop or any type of computer at this point and only function from either their phone and or a tablet is huge.
I would say it's equal or greater that they don't own a computer anymore. And so that's the transition that's happened in the last handful of years is it's all moped and is shifting that way even more dramatically because of. Gosh, it was years and years and years ago the book came out. He was the forerunner for this thought leader. It was called the third Screen and it was talking about pull you forward marketing, which is very different.
So he was forecasting, Gosh, I think the guy was company. I was at the owner shared that book with me in probably 2009, maybe something like that. And this is way before everything switched to mobile. And so it's happened and we're seeing it so 100% reinforce what you're saying. People function via mobile, especially when it comes to home services, because now they impulsively think, oh man, I need to do this.
Or I mean, how many people lay in bed at night and scroll and do the thing and they're doing the research right there. You don't have a computer. It's. It's on a phone. Yeah.
And. And the other part of drop it on their face. Oh gosh. I've seen the means recently of what it feels like. And it's that scene from Home Alone where he gets the.
Is it the iron or something? Oh no, no, it's that metal thing that flips off the roof and they're like, what it feels like when you, you know, you're in your bed and you drop your phone. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so relatable. That's right on the picture, you know. Yeah.
Yep. Top, top five paint. Love it. Love it. Well, this has been a great conversation.
I appreciate you being on. How do people, how in the heck do people get ahold of you? Because I know from this episode there, we need to know how do we get this installed? Because, and honestly, for everybody, I'll tell you, it's not, you know, should you do it or not? It's more of a conversation of do you want to be left behind?
This is what I said five years ago on the conversation with Paul, and it's still that even so much more dramatically now. It's like you either adopt to change or you better get used to extinction. Yes. Mic drop after that. But I'm on social, so Lisa forest.
That's with two Rs like Forrest Gump, Facebook, LinkedIn. com or send me a DM. I'll give you. I'll share my cell phone number. I'm not gonna put it out in the wild on here yet.
But yeah, would love to have a conversation that's at least just learn, right? Like I tell contractors, at least learn see it and, and, and, and what's really cool. When I hear, when I have that conversation, people are like, oh, this is a lot different than what I thought it was. And it's, it kind of breaks that barrier and they get more comfortable. So, yeah, I love that too.
And that's always the thing. It's like, it's always, once you get actually have a conversation, it's like looking at a book by its cover and be like, oh, well, this is what it's about. But it's not at all like what it's about because we all have these stories that we've told ourselves that may or may not be true about the thing until we actually learn. So this is something I learned in actually English class years and years ago, and we were going through this section that was a bit controversial to some of the people in the, you know, the area that we were in. And some people were getting like, oh, this is different than what I was told growing up.
And my English professor said, you know, it's an idea. You can walk with an idea, you can talk with an idea, you can go hang out with it at the park, but you don't have to take it home. But until you have the conversation with it, you don't know anything about it. And it applies to so many Things. So I love this.
Yeah. It's like, I recommend everybody reach out to Lisa and have a conversation, find out what it looks like. I'm a huge advocate. I'm looking at some things now. And if and when I ever have my own contracting company again, it will be part of the rollout.
I just wouldn't. Personally, I wouldn't function in the society. Owning a contracting company and not starting with that at day one, that's 100%. It has to be part of the process. Why would we live in the past when we don't have to?
So, same thing. When somebody asks you to use their phone, you don't handle them. The one plugged into the wall with the curlicue cable, that's how we're functioning without something like this. Well, it's no fault of their own. Right.
This industry has been coached and trained. You gotta get to the kitchen table. You have to get to the kitchen table. And yes, that's important. Yeah.
That's 1955, too. In 1955, however, like, things have changed so dramatically. Like when websites. When people say, get a website. Right?
People are like, absolutely not. Like the phone book and word of mouth and my text. No. Right. If you don't have a website now, you're not even relevant.
So, again, it's just 20, 26, and people are just now doing social media. When we've been telling people you have to do social media for what, 20 years now? Yeah. Yep. So.
Well, I. Yeah, I. I love that you're a fan, and it means a lot to us, and especially coming from somebody that was a salesman. Well, you know, I've seen leads, I've run and sold and unsold leads from every single source. And, you know, I put these right up there with some of the best ones I've ever run.
And so that's why I'm such a believer, because I've experienced it. There's not. I was telling somebody earlier, it's not a single thing that I trained that I don't have the scar to prove it, that I did it. I'm not just the guy that's like, hey, I trained because I can't do. It's like, no, I get the lesson and the T shirt, so we can talk about what happens when it goes bad.
And so I've run these leads and I know what they're like. I've got a guy that I coach in. He's in San Antonio, and the last company he was with, those were his favorite. It's like, oh, My God, I love getting those because I know that we're going to do something when I roll out to them and it gets rid of the tire kickers. People that are like, oh, if the price is too high, well, you don't want to.
That's not your client anyway. Don't roll out to somebody that's going to try to bottom dollar. You let somebody else fight over the bottom half. Take the top half of the clientele. Yes.
And there's plenty of business for everyone. Oh, my gosh, 100%. We can do a whole episode on that. For sure. For sure.
Well, thanks for being on today. This has been awesome for everybody listening. I'll make sure to have all of Lisa's contact info in the show notes. So that way, if you're in your drive time university, don't worry about trying to pause it and go back. Just open up the notes and reach out, follow the link, click the link, shoot Lisa a message and have a conversation.
Because for all the owners, there's some cool stuff. So also just pay attention. We may be doing some cool stuff together. So we're discussing how this could work. But there's a lot of you that have this that don't know how to use Contractor Commerce correctly.
And that's where I come in, because I do. So we can have a conversation about that. So for everybody out there that's listening, if you have a contractor commerce or any other version of having your pricing online, you just don't know how to truly walk through it. Reach out to me, because this zone of genius, of my specialty of helping you actually optimize that, just like Lisa was saying, turn it into a profit center instead of just being something else that's on the website because it's more than just a page. It can be truly a way to increase your revenue like crazy if you know how to operate it.
So, yeah, so that's my little addition to that. And there's a reason why. Yeah, and I was gonna say, and there's a reason why your shows. Close it now. Word.
Let's go. Don't wait. Let's get it done. So. Well, thanks for.
Thanks for being on. I appreciate it. And we'll be talking some more. For everybody else out there, you know how we do go save the world one heat stroke at a time and go be somebody worth buying from. You've been listening to the Close it now podcast.
Our passion is to dive headfirst into the transformative movement that's reshaping the very foundation of H. Vac and home improvement and at the same time covering fitness, nutrition, relationships and personal growth, proving that we can indeed have it all. We hope you've enjoyed the show. If you did, make sure to like, rate and review. net find us on Instagram herealcloseitnow and on Facebook closeitnow.
See you next time. Sam.